Former colleagues say retired Los Angeles debt manager Natalie Brill’s strongest legacy is the people she trained, who now fill leadership roles in the region.
Among them is Ha To, who was named the city’s debt manager when Brill retired in November.
Others who went on from working for Brill to leadership positions include Marla Bleavins, associate director and chief financial officer at the Port of Los Angeles, and Diana Mangioglu, director of finance in the Los Angeles city treasurer’s office.
Brill, who retired after 33 years with the city, was among the first wave of senior officials to take buyouts as Los Angeles works to close a pandemic-induced budget gap.
Her successor said that Brill leaves a legacy of fostering diversity among her own staff and in hiring bankers, financial advisors and attorneys to sell the city’s debt.
“She felt strongly about increasing women’s representation in public finance and she was not shy about it,” To said. “She would call upon women, including myself, in meetings and interviews to give them opportunities to be heard.”
Brill nominated To as a rising Sstar
“Her ability to lead and analyze complicated bond financings to meet the city’s infrastructure needs has moved the city forward in its capital program,” Brill wrote.
Brill prioritized mentoring and diversity during her tenure and her team-oriented management style also gave those who worked with her the opportunity to move up the ladder.
“That is your job as a debt manager, it is analysis, solutions and supervision,” Brill said. “My staff was brilliant. It was a team effort. I don’t think I ever gave advice to the CAO without my team present.”
Bleavins recalled giving a debt presentation at a Los Angeles City Council meeting as a 29-year-old.
“Natalie told me she thought I was up to it, and if I thought I was, that I should do it,” Bleavins said. “She offered to help me do a dry run, or whatever I needed to make sure I was comfortable doing it.”
Brill had high expectations for her staff, but she would also defend them, Bleavins said. “Natalie created a culture of nurturing young staff,” she said.
“That is something I try to emulate,” Bleavins said. “What I would like my staff to say is the best thing about Marla is that she is supportive. Assuming you are doing the work right. I tell them that I don’t support crazy.”
When Brill started as debt manager two decades ago, the city used the same attorney and financial advisor on every deal.
“I looked around and said, 'Why do we only deal with two people?'” Brill said. “I said, 'We need to be more inclusive and open up to more people.' I think that is my biggest accomplishment. The city of Los Angeles was very insular.”
By including minority and women-owned firms as qualified underwriters, bond counsel and financial advisors, the city institutionalized diversification in its pool of firms, Brill said. The city adopted language to that effect in its request for qualifications on debt deals in the mid-2000s.
“When a bulge bracket bank was lead manager, she encouraged them to include younger women and minorities on the team,” Bleavins said.
Brill credits part of her management style to her own mentors.
When she started out as a budget analyst, Brill said, Kit Carmody would call her into the office and say, “Go through the budget with me. I am going to ask you a question. If you don’t know the answer, find out.”
He did that with all of his staff, and "it made me a better analyst,” Brill said.
When she found herself in a leadership role, she did the same with her team.
David Brodsly, now a managing director at KNN Public Finance, was the city’s first debt manager, leaving in 1992 to work for Moody’s Investors Service. He was part of a carpool with Brill for eight years when she first started in the City Administrative Officer’s office as a budget analyst.
Brill was named debt manager in 2000, “back when there wasn’t a line of succession,” Brodsly said.
“The CAO Bill Fujioka plucked Natalie out of a mass of analysts, and she had to learn it,” he said.
“In 2000, Bill Fujioka called me into the office and asked me if I wanted to head up the debt office,” Brill said.
“I said I am finance. I understand MICLAs and GOs, but I am not a debt person," she said, referring to the Municipal Improvements Corporation of Los Angeles and general obligation bonds.
"He said you will learn. You have been doing the financial status report for five years. You have a good grip on what is going on in the city.”
Though that is changing, there was no school that people could go to learn public finance. The California Debt Investment and Advisory Commission provides workshops, and Brill said she took advantage of any opportunities to learn and broaden her public finance knowledge.
Like many people in the field, Brill didn’t originally envision a career in public finance. While working toward her bachelor’s degree in government from Pomona College, her plan was to work in international public policy. She also has a master's degree from the University of Chicago.
During her tenure, Brill managed the city’s $6 billion debt portfolio, completing 108 transactions, managing a $425 million general fund commercial paper program, and executing the city’s first competitively bid swap agreements totaling $235.2 million.
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The California Public Service Association gave her its Award in Excellence for her work in public finance. The National Women in Public Finance awarded her the She’s My Hero Award for her ability to balance her professional and private lives.
But she faced criticism for interest rate swaps the city entered into in 2004, which cost the city money when interest rates rose.
When the swaps were issued, Brill said, they made sense and saved the city money. But after the 2008 recession, interest rates remained historically low, and the swaps didn’t seem like such a great idea. The city has since exited the swaps, she said.
“I was severely criticized for taking out the swaps in 2004,” Brill said. “I took the brunt of it. In 2008 or 2009, swaps were a horrible decision. But in 2004, it was a wise decision.”
In 2007, interest rates were at 7%, but the last MICLA deal she did in 2019 had fixed interest rates of 1.88%, Brill said.
“My point is you make decisions based on where you are now,” Brill said. “Who could have predicted the Great Recession of 2008? With that said, would I ever do a swap again? No.”
The longevity of debt and awareness of economic cycles is something To, the new debt manager, is mindful of.
“Since I joined debt management, I learned that words do matter and bonds are around for a long time, so proper attention must be paid to drafting agreements and disclosure,” said To, who joined Brill’s debt management team in 2008.
The debt management division in the City of Los Angeles grew from one person when Brill started to a five- or six-person group today.
“I found this niche of public finance that I enjoyed,” Brill said. “I had opportunities outside of the city, but every time I wanted to leave they promoted me, so I stayed.”
